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TAG Forum Discussion - Shared screen with speaker view
Amy Lappin
12:45
Hello Everyone! Welcome! It would be great if you want to say hello in the chat and introduce yourselves.
Amy Lappin
13:18
On behalf of the TAG taskforce, we are really happy to see you all here!
Ray James
14:01
Eldon Ray James (Prefer "Ray")Retired ResearcherIFRT Coalition Building chair 2021-2022TAG Task Force member 2021-2022IFRT Obelor Award committee member 2021-2022FTRF Developing Issues Committee member 2021-2022Intellectual Freedom Committee IFRT liaison 2021-2023Intellectual Freedom Committee LSJI liaison 2021-2023Intellectual Freedom & Social Justice Task Force 2021-2022 (LSJI liaison)Challenges to CRT and Diversity Training Toolkit Subgroup memberIFLA Guidelines for library services to prisoners working group (2021-2022)Library Services to the Justice Involved (LSJI) member (2021-2022)TLA memberIFLA memberHe/his/himerayjames@utexas.edu
Meg Delaney
14:01
Hi Gina!
Gina Kromhout
14:08
hi meg!
Gina Kromhout
14:31
Gina Kromhout, GameRT councilor feeling stressed out in Cleveland
Sara Dallas
14:33
Sara Dallas - Councilor at Large joining you from Albany NY. @Ray - HI
Christina Rodriques
14:44
Hello Everyone, Christina Rodriques, ALA Executive Board member. Looking forward to a great discussion!
Ray James
14:46
Howdy from Abilene, Texas
Liz Nebeker
14:49
Liz Nebeker- YALSA Councilor
Liz Nebeker
14:54
Houston, TX
Glen J Benedict (he/him)
15:03
Glen J Benedict, Access Services Librarian, University of the District of ColumbiaCurrent: IFC MemberPrevious: COL Member
Patty Wong
15:20
Hello all, Patty Wong, ALA President, from Santa Clara, CA
Rebecca Moorman
15:23
Rebecca Moorman, IFRT Secretary, in Anchorage, AK
Sara Dallas
15:39
Thank you, TAG members for doing this important work
Emily Drabinski
16:13
Hi! Emily Drabinski, running for ALA president, former councilor at large. Hope people are safe and warm!
Meg Delaney
16:13
Thanks Sara! Glad you're here.
Peter Coyl
16:44
Peter Coyl, IFRT Councilor (Library Director & CEO, Sacramento Public Library)
Alexandra Rivera
16:53
Hello everyone! Alex Rivera, Executive Board - Michigan
Ray James
17:06
Hi Sara!
Sherry Machones
17:29
Sherry Machones, Councilor at Large, saying hi from cold and snowy Wisconsin
Kristin Green
17:33
Kristin Green, IFRT Bylaws Chair, from snowy PA 🙂
Steven Yates
17:52
Hello everyone! Committee on Library Advocacy chair here :) Thanks to everyone who's continuing this process!
Sara Kelly Johns
18:00
Hello from the Adirondack Mountains in Northern NYS. Sara Kelly Johns, Councilor-at_Large
Sara Dallas
18:28
Hi Meg, and Sara in the Adirondacks
Sara Kelly Johns
19:48
Hi Sara!
Aaron Dobbs
20:20
Happy Wednesday, friendsSunny & pleasantly chilly at 26F in South Central PA!(40-ish tomorrow)
Patty Wong
20:53
So good to see you all; thank you for your participation1
Heather VanDyne
22:29
Hello from Hays KS. Heather VanDyne, Kansas Chapter Councilor
John Sandstrom
22:56
Greetings from John Sandstrom past councilor
jennifer boettcher
27:06
I would like to speak
John Sandstrom
27:47
I would like to speak to the structure
Jacquelyn Bryant
28:07
Greetings from Philadelphia. I am the ACRL Division Councilor.
jennifer boettcher
28:12
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xFTT8y4g0RLfYGR_Z8k6w_NcnrXpU6ARNywbkbsLk6A/edit
Stephanie Chase
31:58
I would like to speak
Karen Schneider
34:57
+1 Stephane
Karen Schneider
35:05
*Stephanie
Emily Drabinski
35:08
I would like to speak.
Liana Juliano
35:44
Affilates are also paying members of ALA
John Sandstrom
35:45
Then why are we not including all affiliate?
John Sandstrom
36:52
Members of affiliates are not required to be members of ALA except in a very few cases.
Mike Marlin
37:39
Just a clarification, please...in the introduction TAG writes:
Mike Marlin
37:45
The current model of governance has two policy making bodies (Council and the Executive Board) which can lead to confusion.
Mike Marlin
38:08
Is this actually true? If so what are the specifics?
Emily Drabinski
38:29
I did not experience my time on Council as an experience of “governance,” is all I’m trying to say, and I’m guessing I am not alone on that.
jennifer boettcher
38:30
Question. Did TAG talk about the need for a new constitution as a part of these proposed changes?
Eileen Palmer, NJ Chapter Councilor
39:15
Can you please speak to how you envision the Executive Board will be held formally accountable to the membership?
Peter Hepburn
39:17
I would like to speak
Alfred Kagan
40:01
Sorry but the ALA Constitutional states that the Council is the governance body. The Ex. Bd carries out those policies. See Article Vim Section 1 and Article VII, section 3
Aaron Dobbs
40:21
++
Emily Drabinski
40:45
+1 to Eileen’s question. Accountability matters.
Gina Kromhout
40:59
+1 Eileen
Jim Neal
41:14
I joined a few minutes late. Can you speak to proposed executive board committee, and the ALA and Council committees. Process.
Christina Rodriques
42:15
I would like to speak
jennifer boettcher
42:37
What about the future of the established policies as set in the Policy Manuals? How would they be altered?
Eileen Palmer, NJ Chapter Councilor
43:44
Isn't the EB's role in selecting the OEB counter to its role in accountability?
Eileen Palmer, NJ Chapter Councilor
44:06
ORB, sorry
Gina Kromhout
44:09
yes - why would we have the BoD appoint the very committee they would oversee?
Sara Kelly Johns
44:44
++Gina, my question, too.
Mario Gonzalez
44:48
How could the ORB be independent if they are selected by the Board of Directors?
Gina Kromhout
45:23
also - do I get this right, that the ORB only had advisory capabilities? so they can recommend changes but then the BoD can ignore them?
Aaron Dobbs
45:25
Our affiliates have members that are not ALA members, similar to Chapter representaions
Aaron Dobbs
45:39
*represntatives
Victor Baeza
45:58
I feel like the statement of becoming more like other professional organizations should stop being used. It has been said for years and I don't feel like it is a statement that reflects the nature of an organization made up of many free public library systems that was not like other industrialized countries. As mentioned earlier, the changes should be for the benefit of members and explained/proposed with a statement of how that would be the case.
John Sandstrom
46:25
Ditto Victor
Sherry Machones
46:29
absolutely Victor!
jennifer boettcher
46:34
How do we give people experience for ALA-Wide leadership, without a Council. The two opinions presented are for narrow representing their groups.
Aaron Dobbs
46:48
Echoing Victor, we have ~50,000 members (very few others has as many)
Gina Kromhout
46:56
agreed - this change to a smaller BoD is very similar to other large organizations that are also being criticized for doing the exact same change
Jane Cothron
47:27
+1 Victor. Thanks.
Keturah Cappadonia
47:57
Agreed, Jennifer. Also, the elimination of almost all At-Large positions seems like it could narrow the pathway for members to participate.
Raymond Garcia, ALA Staff
48:05
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f4lm9OC5-YU7C1El8RghfXAtIa63BZ7e-W1VsESH1Jg/edit#gid=0
Raymond Garcia, ALA Staff
48:18
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BhjWoW0dk9QjhOwrndyrKiFJ2537OgLcNwVgwQlsiQI/edit
Ed Sanchez
50:05
Yes, thank you Meg!
Tara Brady
50:22
Hey all I'm on the reference desk so I can't get on mic but I am watching the transcript and keeping up as best I can. I wanted to say that it's disappointing to see that after round after round of feedback we are still being asked to choose one of two versions of the same plan, with no opportunity to even discuss designing a new larger policymaking body. There have been proposals floated already, it's not as if that work hasn't been done, but time and again we get stymied with a new body being created which shifts right back to the executive board model. It kind of feels like in this matter council is ALREADY an advisory body, given a place to speak and give our opinions, but then asked to choose from two versions of the same model and not even being permitted to vote on anything else.
Eileen Palmer, NJ Chapter Councilor
50:33
And what specific authority will be vested in the ORB
Eileen Palmer, NJ Chapter Councilor
51:15
+Tara
John Sandstrom
51:28
+ Tara
Gina Kromhout
51:34
I would like to speak
Keturah Cappadonia
51:39
+ Tara
Brenda Pruitt-Annisette
51:41
++Tara
Dorcas Hand
53:15
I'm missing the numbers of membership on the proposed Board of Directors. It sounds large.
Jane Cothron
53:17
I am concerned that the TAG proposals are both very similar and would like to add the choice to explicitly state that Council will exist as a democratically elected policy making body and that the Executive Board has the responsibility of enacting those policies and managing the organization. I am concerned that the TAG proposals do not endorse a democratically elected legislative body for ALA.
Victor Baeza
54:03
The shame was that Council was not given the opportunity to vote on the proposals created by the FTWG last year. I'll just be happy if we finally get to vote on something so at least where we stand is better understood.
James Davis
55:19
+1 Victor. Will council actually get to vote on something at the January 2022 meeting? This never-ending conversation is Maning me want to end my ALA membership. So much talk anad no action!
jennifer boettcher
57:09
With the Executive Board Model- the question is do you have mandated representatives on the Board? Who do you include on the board? Those who get the most votes?
Stephanie Chase
57:42
I would love to see a meeting where we encouraged ALA members, and not just councilors, to engage. We need to hear from more voices, and every single one of us on Council needs to stop acting like we represent “everyone.
Stephanie Chase
57:51
*engage on this topic
Meg Delaney
57:51
Jennifer: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f4lm9OC5-YU7C1El8RghfXAtIa63BZ7e-W1VsESH1Jg/edit#gid=0
Gina Kromhout
59:45
+1 jane
Aaron Dobbs
59:48
Related to Gina's comments, we initially started this conversation (pre- and with SCOE) trying to improve membership engagement with ALA and all of us seem to have slid the focus over to Governance.How can we help ALA membership engage with the ongoing efforts made by ALA Offices, other Units, and Staff (and members in engagement with these offices, units, and staff)
Gina Kromhout
01:00:00
thank youuuu Aaron
Jane Cothron
01:00:11
+1 Gina. Thanks for your comments.
Gina Kromhout
01:02:06
The FTRWG Council subcommittee just wanted to present our findings to the council floor and debate it there
Natalie DeJonghe
01:02:07
At this point it feels like the last few years would have been better spent putting all this time and energy into figuring out ways to make council participation more affordable and accessible and in general, how to make ALA more affordable and accessible to the many members of the library field that can't join ALA and essentially get shut out of everything.,
Stephanie Chase
01:02:47
We should remember we are on year five (right?) of trying to take action on what members told us they wanted!
Gina Kromhout
01:03:27
Amy, ORB is a good idea! Please don't get the impression that all your ideas are awful.
LeRoy LaFleur
01:03:35
I think TAG is open to suggestions on the best way implement the ORB process.
Johana Orellana Cabrera
01:03:38
I would like to speak
Dorcas Hand
01:03:39
So are we hoping that the member engagement comes from the bottom up, at the same time we hope that more frequent meetings will make the leadership more transparent and nimble?
Jane Cothron
01:03:49
I attended meetings for Forward Together and have yet to see the feedback from those meetings reflected in the recommendations for SCOE. I will not belong to an ALA with no democratically elected leadership.
John Sandstrom
01:03:56
I would like to speak (2nd time)
Gina Kromhout
01:03:56
hi Johana!
Sara Kelly Johns
01:04:13
I like ORB but with another way of appointment
jennifer boettcher
01:04:49
The revolutionary work I hope will be coming out the Operating Agreement working group. That is where there are a lot of bottleneck because of that old model.
Eileen Palmer, NJ Chapter Councilor
01:05:45
I think it's important to recognize that we all speak for members we represent. My experience is that our membership is not monolith and reflects quite a spectrum of opinion. I hope that we can all recognize that each of us speak to reflect the membership we interact with. There is no one thing related to governance that the members told us they wanted. We did not ask anything so specific of them. It's why this process is so hard.
James Davis
01:05:47
AMEN Johanna!
Stephanie Chase
01:06:40
+1 Johana
Emily Drabinski
01:07:08
Thanks for those comments Johana, agreed.
Erin Berman
01:07:14
Thank you Johana!! The time for change is now and we've got some great options on the table to move us forward.
Jane Cothron
01:07:17
Yes. Johanna. This sounds like a problem with communication with Council. Why are we not using telecommunications effectively to gather information and call for action? I can call my Senators and Representatives (they can still ignore me), but not ALA Council.
Jack Martin
01:07:17
And members don’t know what Council does. It took me nearly 3 years as a councilor to figure out what my job was
Natalie DeJonghe
01:07:20
Strong agree, Johana. Thank you for those comments.
Sara Dallas
01:07:45
Thank you, Johana
Heather VanDyne
01:08:42
Johana, thank you for accurately reflecting the thoughts and feelings of members and those of us who struggle in this current structure
jennifer boettcher
01:08:50
Can I speak again?
Aaron Dobbs
01:09:08
50,000 members, ~185 councilors, so ~270 members/councilor (or 100 at large = 500 members/councilors at large)
Emily Drabinski
01:11:20
+1 Jack, baffling!
Al Kagan, SRRT Action Council
01:11:28
I want to speak. Al Kagan
Dorcas Hand
01:12:18
At-Large Councilors have the hardest job because they don't have an obvious constituency. Chapter/Division/RT councilors know exactly who they speak for and how to solicit instructions. How can at-large folks develop a system for doing just that, like how we contact our congressional reps?
Gina Kromhout
01:12:50
perhaps it's a simple solution - assign people a councilor?
Karen Downing
01:13:12
Questions I ask myself as we (hopefully) move closer to voting on aspects of new governance model: 1. does the new model simplify governance? 2. does the new model increase member engagement over the current model? 3. does the new model reflect our core values?
Kim DeNero-Ackroyd
01:13:13
As a Councilor at Large, I agree with Dorcas.
Keturah Cappadonia
01:14:15
+ Dorcas
Sara Kelly Johns
01:14:35
Those are the right three questions, Karen Downing.
Peter Coyl
01:14:46
Agreed Karen!
Dorcas Hand
01:14:59
+Karen
Sherry Machones
01:15:00
Completely agree Karen
Aaron Dobbs
01:15:27
++Al
jennifer boettcher
01:15:40
Right on Al!
jennifer boettcher
01:15:47
🌞
Dorcas Hand
01:16:22
yes, AL
Brenda Pruitt-Annisette
01:16:26
Thank you, Al!
jennifer boettcher
01:17:02
Council has changed over these years!
Stephanie Chase
01:17:02
Before we leave, can we get a sense of how this all is being handled next week?
Sara Kelly Johns
01:17:50
Good question, Stephanie
Barbara McGary
01:17:58
I appreciate the narrative provided and spreadsheet on models. I am very glad to see TAG fleshing out details. Thank you!
Emily Drabinski
01:18:14
Appreciate everyone’s candor on the call. It’s refreshing. Thank you.
Brenda Pruitt-Annisette
01:18:18
What are the financial implications of proposals made by TAG?
Dorcas Hand
01:18:32
Thank you for your work.
Christina Rodriques
01:18:49
Thank you to TAG members for all your hard work on this.
Eileen Palmer, NJ Chapter Councilor
01:18:55
I appreciate the work of this group and understand how hard the job is. I am disappointed that there is no option on the table similar to that we proposed in redesigning council and wish it had received a vote either up or down.
jennifer boettcher
01:19:03
These are necessary discussion to make ALA stronger.
John Sandstrom
01:19:12
Will this be done at the membership meeting too?
Johana Orellana Cabrera
01:19:12
Thank you again for your hard work! I appreciate all of you and all the work done throughout the years to get us to this point.
Sara Kelly Johns
01:19:14
Thank you to TAG! What a tough job but it does need to happen!
Mandi Goodsett
01:19:19
Yes, thank you for doing this difficult work, TAG folks
Raymond Garcia, ALA Staff
01:19:29
Chat and recording will be saved and shared.
Aaron Dobbs
01:19:47
fwiw, the resolution linked previously by Jennifer iirc could also be introduced on its own as a parallel discussion
Sara Dallas
01:19:52
Thank you TAG and ALA staff for your work on this
Aaron Dobbs
01:20:02
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xFTT8y4g0RLfYGR_Z8k6w_NcnrXpU6ARNywbkbsLk6A/edit
Joy Panigabutra-Roberts
01:20:03
Thank you, TAG, for your work. Look forward to hear more about the financial analyses of these models too.
Sara Kelly Johns
01:20:05
I really see Council already changing with virtual involvement we have had by necessity.
Ed Sanchez
01:20:26
Thank everyone for the conversation and work leading up to this meeting.
Gina Kromhout
01:21:46
Thank you TAG for your work! I must go to dinner now but I will take all this info back to GameRT and see all of you next week!
Monica Harris
01:21:53
We definitely appreciate the work of Amy and the committee!
Sara Dallas
01:21:58
We do, Oscar