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Copy Cataloging Interest Group (Core IG Week) - Shared screen with speaker view
Tom Ferren - Core Staff
33:51
Hi, everyone - I'm a Core staff member. Just a quick note that our Code of Conduct can be found at https://connect.ala.org/core/codeofconduct . Please contact me through private chat or at jlevine@ala.org if you experience or see any violations of the Code
Tom Ferren - Core Staff
34:55
If you’re not already a member of this interest group, you can join it athttps://connect.ala.org/core/communities/community-home?CommunityKey=a56dd9de-0715-420e-bf42-72639fb25096
Rachel Turner
36:17
Everyone please feel free to drop your questions in the chat during the presentations, and I will read them out at the end. You will also be able to ask your questions yourself during the QA session at the end if you prefer. Thanks!
Shawne Miksa
39:26
Is she saying "Share BD"? I didn't quite catch it.
Jill Crane
39:32
Could you speak more slowly?
Daniel Lovins
39:37
SHARE VDE
Christa Strickler
39:39
Share VDE I think
Shawne Miksa
39:44
got it--thank you!
Ian Bigelow
39:55
Share-VDE - Share Virtual Discovery Environment
Shawne Miksa
40:18
Thanks--I am so not in the know.
Greta de Groat
45:00
Beware if there is automatic voice transcription on this, last time I mentioned Share-VDE on Zoom, the transcription rendered it as Shared VD, which is definitely something you don't want!
Ronne Jones
45:37
😂
Brie O'Keefe
45:43
Haha
Matt Person
46:29
Do many use Sinopia?, I've never heard of it before.
Tami Wilkerson
47:36
It's new to me too.
Misty Long
47:42
@Matt Person I have played around with Sinopia but don't actually use it to catalog.
Shawne Miksa
48:13
Is it free to use or is there a license fee?
Ann Mills
48:15
I've never heard of Sinopia either.
Melanie Wacker
48:17
There is the PCC Sinopia Cataloging Affinity Group. Notes and recordings of the meetings are available here: https://wiki.lyrasis.org/display/LD4P3/PCC+Sinopia+Cataloging+Affinity+Group
Lauren Corbett
48:25
https://sinopia.io/
Daniel Lovins
48:27
It was widely used during the Mellon-funded LD4 BIBFRAME grant
Paloma Graciani Picardo
49:15
Here is the Sinopia stage version, where you can create a user account and test around - https://stage.sinopia.io/.
Christine DeZelar-Tiedman
49:22
It is free to use, but I don't think many libraries are using it for production-level cataloging yet
Shawne Miksa
49:51
thank you
Matt Person
50:31
Thanks for all the helpful info.
Zaineb Bayahy
50:52
How does Sinopia with non-roman records?
Christine DeZelar-Tiedman
51:09
Share VDE is not free, however (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Graeme Williams
51:26
What triggers the creation of a BIBFRAME hub?
Shawne Miksa
51:44
Will these slides be available later? It's going by very quickly.
Crystal Clements
51:56
Anyone with a login can also adjust/create their own templates in any linked data vocabulary. There is a Non-Latin Affinity Group as part of the LD4 community focused on Non-Latin cataloging in Sinopia. Yes SHARE-VDE is very not-free. But its data is open.
Paloma Graciani Picardo
52:47
@zaineb - LD4 non-latin affinity group https://wiki.lyrasis.org/display/LD4P2/Non-Latin+Script+Materials+Affinity+Group
Crystal Clements
52:53
Also, Sinopia developers are very responsive to issues on GitHub: https://github.com/LD4P/sinopia_editor
Diana Brooking
53:05
Yes, it is being recorded.
Tiziana Possemato
53:23
About “Share VDE is not free, however (someone correct me if I'm wrong)”: no, currently it’s not an open source but it’s possible to join the community with different levels of participation.
Zaineb Bayahy
53:40
Thank you Paloma!
Nancy Lorimer
54:10
SVDE is not free, correct, but they will be making PCC data open to all.
JK Milligan
54:51
Word use question -- Bibframe is the Library of Congress's editing software. Nancy seems to be using "Bibframe" in a different way, meaning linked data. So is this what we will be calling bibliographic linked data?
Elizabeth Claire
55:11
How many catalogers are doing copy at Stanford and how many are doing original and how many are doing linked data cataloging?
Jean Harden
55:36
Did I understand that currently you can't "edit" within Sinopia but have to export to your ILS and then edit within the ILS? This is different from what can be done now in OCLC (and I guess others) - edit the copy in the utility and then import.
Staci Ross (she/her)
55:47
@JK - Bibframe is a linked data format -- the Bibframe Editor is the LC's editing software
Tina Shrader
55:51
@JK Milligan -- BIBFRAME is the metadata standard the LC is developing to replace MARC.
Jodi Williamschen
55:56
The short answer is that BIBFRAME is the replacement for MARC. The long answer is https://www.loc.gov/bibframe/
Paloma Graciani Picardo
56:02
@JK - BIBFRAME is an ontology for description of bibliographic resources - https://www.loc.gov/bibframe/
Crystal Clements
56:07
BIBFRAME is a linked data ontology developed by the Library of Congress. LC also has a BIBFRAME editor, on which Sinopia was based. Both editors can make use of LC's BIBFRAME ontology
Crystal Clements
56:40
@Jean Sinopia is an editing environment and can be used completely independently of an ILS
Sarah Hesler
57:18
I think we can't see what Al is trying to show us at the moment
Sara McEachern
57:29
We can only see the Voyager window
Christine DeZelar-Tiedman
57:37
Editing is possible within Sinopia, but the creating institution may limit the ability to edit the records they create, for example to PCC libraries only
Diana Brooking
57:48
He shared just one window and not his whole desktop..?
Bilkiss K.
57:51
Correct, can only view voyager screen
JK Milligan
58:09
Thank you, JW, PG, and Crystal!
Nancy Lorimer
59:21
Jean, you can edit a Sinopia description if you have the permissions for that particular description. Generally, I would guess people will provide broad permissions for editing.
Crystal Clements
01:01:46
Nancy, I think institutions without editing permissions are able to clone PCC records and edit those, correct? Is that a best practice in Sinopia? If so, do resource templates allow for "sameAs" or similar statements to be made between restricted description sets and copied-and-edited versions?
Lauren Corbett
01:02:56
Is MARVA the LoC's proprietary triple store?
Nancy Lorimer
01:02:57
yes, you can copy/clone any description. So if you aren't a PCC group member, you can clone that description, just as if you were doing derived original cataloging, and export your cloned description to your ILS (if that is available to you)
Nancy Lorimer
01:03:10
MARVA is LC's BF editor
Crystal Clements
01:03:12
Thanks Nancy!
Nancy Lorimer
01:03:28
thanks for letting me clarify Crystal!
Trail, Nate
01:03:55
MARVA is the editor only
Lauren Corbett
01:04:07
Thanks, Nancy. So the triple store is what Al is calling the Bibframe database.
Anne Murphy
01:04:26
How does Bibframe identify Expressions?
Lauren Corbett
01:04:34
And MARVA and Sinopia are two different editors
Jodi Williamschen
01:05:08
In BIBFRAME, Expressions are a type of Work (https://www.loc.gov/bibframe/docs/bibframe2-model.html)
Paul Frank
01:05:11
RDA expressions map to BIBFRAME Works
Crystal Clements
01:05:43
Does MARVA allow users to edit templates and use any linked data ontology, or are all descriptions restricted to LC BIBFRAME templates? Is there a summary somewhere of major differences between Sinopia and MARVA?
Graeme Williams
01:06:42
Can we see (i) a link to a hub, (ii) a hub record, please?
Jim Latchney
01:07:38
Is there any way to apply a style sheet to a bib, i.e. make an all caps copy record into sentence case or similar?
Nancy Lorimer
01:07:42
you can look at BF hubs at id.loc.gov
Elizabeth Lilker
01:08:03
Does MARVA only work with Voyager or also with other systems?
Jodi Williamschen
01:08:04
At this time, catalogers are not able to edit the user templates in Marva. It is possible to use non-BIBFRAME ontologies in Marva. For instance, the Performed Music Ontology structure is used for medium of performance.
Trail, Nate
01:08:18
Crystal, Marva allows any template, but not user-editable. Non-bibframe elements are fine.
Jodi Williamschen
01:08:48
Elizabeth, Marva is completely independent of LC's Voyager system.
Lara Spahr
01:08:56
This begs the question of efficiencies for item turnover?
Crystal Clements
01:09:05
You search for hubs within BIBFRAME works. Here's an example: https://id.loc.gov/resources/hubs/a4ef82ca-0c25-56b6-cfc1-a0258de4314a.html
Nancy Lorimer
01:09:38
Laura Spahr can you explain what you mean?
Lara Spahr
01:10:17
Thinking from a perspective of workflow efficiencies
Ashlie Mildfelt
01:10:35
Are all new MARC records also being added to the BFDB?
cynthia earman
01:10:53
@Ashlie--no
Lara Spahr
01:11:10
Data takes 5 minutes to process?
Crystal Clements
01:11:18
Hub has been defined here: https://id.loc.gov/ontologies/bibframe.html#c_Hub "An abstract resource that functions as a bridge between two Works." and subclass of:Work. I am still a bit mystified by the Hub and how it relates to rda:Work and svde super works
Staci Ross (she/her)
01:11:18
cool walkthrough!
Robin Wendler
01:11:36
Need a little more info in the hub display for the War and Peace expressions so you don't need to click into every one.
Trail, Nate
01:11:46
Ashlie, yes, we import daily from our catalog
Ford, Kevin
01:12:05
@Lara - A MARC record takes *up to* 5 minutes to propagate from the MARC-based ILS (Voyager) to the BF system.
Trail, Nate
01:12:14
Robin, yes; that's on our radar; thanks.
Lara Spahr
01:12:26
Ah, okay, thank you.
cynthia earman
01:12:36
@Laura--it often transfers a lot faster.
Robin Wendler
01:12:40
@nate, I figured. ;-)
Diana Brooking
01:12:58
Web forms are klunkier to edit, having to open a window to choose a diacritic, as opposed to a shortcut key, etc. ... We have developed so many efficiencies with our MARC editors. How to get that in linked data again? An aspect we shouldn't ignore for the future...
Staci Ross (she/her)
01:13:56
It seems the problem is web forms vs. desktop clients. It's much easier to enter data in Connexion client than in the browser, for instance
Shawne Miksa
01:14:22
Is this plan available for us to read?
Laura Daniels
01:14:39
@Staci FOLIO has similar challenges
Jolene DeFranco
01:14:42
That is a personal preference :) I like web forms so much better. :)
Staci Ross (she/her)
01:15:03
@Laura - same with Alma's Metadata Editor (sigh)
Ann Mills
01:15:33
Agree about Alma's Metadata editor.😞
Staci Ross (she/her)
01:16:16
@Jolene - That's fair! ;) Agreed it's personal preference and what you're cataloging. For folks who need diacritics, etc., web forms can be frustrating
Quoc Vinh Van
01:17:06
I wished to be there at the beginning of the presentation, but power outrage happened.
Brian Humphreys
01:17:43
Quoc Vinh Van it is being recorded.
Trail, Nate
01:17:51
Our MARVA editor has all the same macros for diacritics as we have in Voyager
Nancy Lorimer
01:18:05
True enough. If you are using one language, a language/script-oriented keyboard can help, but not for everything (e.g., transliteration). Local macros are possible for more common diacritics
Shawne Miksa
01:22:02
So far, I haven't heard any of the presenters talk about RDA. Forgive me my ignorance, but it is just that because this is copy cataloging that RDA doesn't even figure into it?
Staci Ross (she/her)
01:22:21
I think Al mentioned it during his walkthrough?
Trail, Nate
01:22:32
Shawne, I would say, that's true.
Shawne Miksa
01:22:52
RDA and/or RDA2?
Lena Sebakijje
01:23:41
what's the difference between MARVA and Sinopia?
Crystal Clements
01:24:25
+ 1 Shawne. The University of Washington has created RDA templates and an RDA dataset in Sinopia, and are working on a new set of LRM/RDA/RDF templates as alternatives to BIBFRAME, which is insufficient for representing RDA description sets as linked data in my opinion.
Shawne Miksa
01:24:43
I'm asking this from a cataloger educator perspective. What I teach in my basic cataloging--I have to ask if I am focusing on the correct things?
Trail, Nate
01:25:09
Shawne, regardless of whether the descriptions are RDA or not, we need to figure out how to re-use/copy them.
Sarah Theimer
01:27:01
What is a good example of a front end of a linked data catalog, to show what the public impact would be?
Shawne Miksa
01:27:16
Yes, I completely agree on that part. My concern is what students coming out of my class, or our advanced cataloging and metadata courses should know in order to hit the ground running
Rachel Turner
01:28:26
We are going to save this chat, which has a lot of the answers to everyone's questions. For those that have not been answered, we will try to get answers for them all to the best of our abilities! Thank you everyone for all the great questions and participation!
Shawne Miksa
01:28:28
I teach them how LRM, how to navigate and use RDA, create MARC records, and read and understand the standards and their documentation
Shawne Miksa
01:28:48
Sorry, bah typing
Shawne Miksa
01:28:53
bad
Benjamin Riesenberg
01:29:49
@Sarah during the Linked Data Interest Group session tomorrow, speakers will present on incorporating linked data in the Cornell discovery system
Sarah Theimer
01:30:17
Thanks!
Ruth Relf
01:30:19
@Benjamin - is that meeting open to anyone
Staci Ross (she/her)
01:30:26
@Shawne - Students probably don't need to learn any of this to hit the ground running? Usage isn't widespread and probably won't be for a while.
Benjamin Riesenberg
01:30:27
It is @Ruth
Ruth Relf
01:30:34
Do you have a link handy?
Staci Ross (she/her)
01:30:54
here's the page to all the Interest Group Week sessions: https://www.ala.org/core/continuing-education/interest-group-week
Ruth Relf
01:31:00
Thanks!
Shawne Miksa
01:31:03
@Staci --you mean what is being presented today?
Zaineb Bayahy
01:31:17
Thank you!
Benjamin Riesenberg
01:31:22
@Ruth @Sarah more info and registration available from this page:https://www.ala.org/core/continuing-education/interest-group-week
Paloma Graciani Picardo
01:31:53
In a linked data environment where bibliographic description are based on entities (no matter the ontology used), wouldn't ideal copy cataloging be about describing your unique entities (e.g. items) and linking to existing common entities, no matter in what data source they live?
Staci Ross (she/her)
01:32:06
@Shawne - Yes, what's presented today seems to still be too new (and complex) for the rest of us to fully embrace in regular cataloging workflows. Today's presentations were a glimpse into what's possible today, but many of us don't have the capacity, yet
Julie Reese, Core Staff
01:32:18
Present a webinar for Core! Submit your idea online at https://tinyurl.com/corewebinarproposal for the spring and summer 2022 Core schedule.
Trail, Nate
01:32:50
Ideally, yes, Paloma. But someone has to come up with the common data pool!
Shawne Miksa
01:32:51
@Staci---yes, I agree, but at some point we have to start to understand this.
David Scott
01:32:53
Thank you
Jill Crane
01:32:55
@Shawne, I think they still need to now LRM, how to use RDA, but the MARC would be different. Different order to think of when cataloging an item in hand, not thinking so much in tag #s, indicators, subfields. But as others have said, I think there will be a lot of hybrid time.
Audra Kackley
01:32:58
Thank you
Anchalee Panigabutra-Roberts
01:32:58
Thanks so much! Great presentations!
Dave Van Kleeck
01:32:59
Thank you to the presenters and organizers!
Katie B
01:32:59
Thank you all!
Christie Kess (she/her)
01:32:59
Thank you!!
Alejandro Arana
01:33:00
Thank you everyone!
Staci Ross (she/her)
01:33:01
Thanks for the great presentations all!
Amanda Slater
01:33:02
Thank you all! This has been informative.
Maria Ho
01:33:02
thank you all
Victoria Bond
01:33:02
Thank you!
Karin Wece
01:33:04
Thank you all!
Ann Mills
01:33:04
Thank you all!
Avi Woontner
01:33:05
Thank you!
Joan Beaudoin
01:33:05
Thank you! Wonderful and interesting presentations.
Tricia Karlin
01:33:05
This was great to see how some libraries are working with the new BIBFRAME. Thanks so much
Crystal Clements
01:33:06
Thank you, great presentations!
Wendy Collett
01:33:06
thank you
Arden Kirkland
01:33:08
Thanks everyone!
Christa Strickler
01:33:08
Inspiring! Thank you!
Caroline Kent
01:33:08
Thank you to all speakers, great presentations.
Dean Bergstrom
01:33:09
Great job presenters
Eve Lashley
01:33:10
So much to think about, thank you!
Gregory Snyder
01:33:11
Thank you all!
Zahra Gordon
01:33:13
Thank you!
Anna Yang
01:33:14
Thank you!
Christy Hogan
01:33:14
Thank you!!
Bilkiss K.
01:33:16
Thank you! Lots to absorb
Jennifer Martin
01:33:18
Thanks to all!
Judith de Vries-Porteous
01:33:18
Thank you!
Magda Gad
01:33:19
Thank you all!
Lori Dekydtspotter
01:33:19
Thank you all!
Jancie Bunker
01:33:20
interesting, thank you
Alice Hanes
01:33:22
Thank you, all!
Shawne Miksa
01:33:22
thanks Jane
Paloma Graciani Picardo
01:33:23
@Nate - that is true!
Sheryl Nichin-Keith
01:33:24
Thank you so much.
Jeanette Kalchik
01:33:25
Thank you all
Astrid Larson
01:33:27
Thank you all for your time.
Harry Gaylord
01:33:30
Thank you.
Marian Schad
01:33:31
Thank you!
Amy Convery
01:33:32
Thank you for sharing
Wumi Akinade
01:33:33
Thank you
Tiziana Possemato
01:33:36
Very interesting meeting! Thanks a lot!
Misty Long
01:33:37
Thank you all!
Taranjeet Dhaliwal
01:33:37
Thank you all!
Meg Wang
01:33:41
Thank you all
Imad Abuelgasim
01:33:47
Thank you!
JK Milligan
01:33:53
Thank you! Very helpful.
Joanne MacDonald
01:33:57
Thank you!
Wanda Rosinski
01:34:10
Thank you everyone!
Anderson Cubaque Barrero
01:34:17
thanks
Irma Almaguer
01:34:30
Thank you!
Diana Eynon
01:34:34
thank you
Paloma Graciani Picardo
01:34:41
Thanks everyone, this was a great presentation