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Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion through a Social Justice Lens: The Role of the ALA Council - Shared screen with speaker view
Kristin Lahurd
32:54
Hi, everyone. We’ll be getting started with the webinar in about 5 minutes. In the meantime, feel free to introduce yourself in the chat box. To do this, move your cursor to the bottom of the window and click on the Chat button. Please note that messages in the chat will default to sending to the presenters only. To send your message to everyone, please click on the dropdown next to “To” in the chat window and select “Panelists and Attendees.”
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
34:10
Hi this is Melissa from Sacramento State University in Sacramento, California
Julie Dietzel-Glair
34:29
Hello from Baltimore, MD
Pamela Martin
36:49
Hell! This is Pam (aka Utah Chapter Councilor) from Utah State University!
Pamela Martin
37:14
Haha! I meant Hello. Not Hell. Oops...
Julie Dietzel-Glair
37:48
Oh good idea Pam. To further my intro above -- I'm from Baltimore, MD and I'm the ALSC Division Councilor.
maggie farrell
38:40
Hi! This is Maggie Farrell, BARC Chair and incoming Treasurer. From UNLV.
Sara Kelly Johns
38:49
Hi! This is Sara Kelly Johns, Councilor-at Large, from Saranac Lake, NY in the Adirondack Mountains
Jody Gray
38:56
We are giving just a moment for people to log on.
Jennifer Ferriss
39:24
redo...it helps if I introduce myself to everyone and not just the panelists.Hi, This is Jen Ferriss (NY Chaper Councilor) from Saratoga Springs
Holly Hibner
46:30
Hi everyone! I'm Holly Hibner, Councilor-at-Large, from Plymouth, MI.
Amber Hayes
48:54
Hi Jennifer - the chat box is for content questions (and conversations) and the QA is for technical difficulties
jennifer boettcher
49:15
cool thanks
jennifer boettcher
52:28
One of my Invisible Diversity is I suffer from Imposter Syndrom.
jennifer boettcher
53:56
I need to build my network of inclusion, so I don't have to know it all because I know all of you.
jennifer boettcher
01:03:59
Q: Being on Council means I see myself as a leader, how do I bring people up in leadership. Do I step back or just stay quiet?
Jody Gray
01:05:58
Please share your ideas in this space
Julie Dietzel-Glair
01:07:44
We can demonstrate our commitement by sharing information about what our divisions/round tables/etc are doing with and for EDI. We can also bring what we learn in Council back to assist our specific divisions.
Pamela Martin
01:08:01
My first thought is that we don't demonstrate our EDI principles, but now that I think about it, I see it come through in our resolutions a lot. We debate fines and social justice; we talk about issues related to transgender bathrooms; etc.
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:08:03
i think commitment to EDI principles and practices must include both internal and external work
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:08:14
it's not enough to vote for perceived "diverse" candidates
Amber Creger
01:08:15
We advocate for inclusive and equitable resolutions
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:09:01
we should take our personal inventory, exercise our sociological imagination (critical to seeing power heirarchies)
Selina GomezBeloz
01:09:19
Perhaps a basic question. More and more councilors are coming from our ethnic affiliates. I wonder if there has been discussion or will there be an opportunity to rethink our meetings, or the affliate meetings, so that they do not conflict. Being a part of an affiliate and council means picking and choosing our priority meeting when both are meaningful.
maggie farrell
01:09:30
We openly listen to others during discussions and strive to understand other perspectives. We express appreciation for ideas and comments even if we disagree.
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:09:44
and appreciate that we are both agents and enablers of systems we participate in
jennifer boettcher
01:10:02
Since Resolution end in the Policy Manual, do we need to review the Policy Manual for EDI principels?
Jessica Jupitus
01:10:22
Norms: create a mechanism for asking "who is not included in this conversation?" when we are discussing council business.
Lori Fisher
01:10:37
We listen, we respectfully disagree, we ask clarifying questions, and we try to see the perspectives everyone expresses, even if it does not resonate withour lived experience. Our perspective is always just one of many many ways to approach and look at a situation.
Julie Dietzel-Glair
01:11:22
Jessica - I really like that thought about remembering who isn't currently included.
Jennifer Ferriss
01:12:14
I think as councilors we pass resolutions and have the opportunity to learn from each other during debates or discussions. I think we need more time as a group to follow through, reflect, and internalize the ideals that we pass.
Sara Kelly Johns
01:12:33
We take the responsibility to take back the resolutions and the dialog that preceded votes back to our affiliates and organizations and create opportunities in them to discuss and use them as a lens for the divisions, affiliates and organizations of which we are members. ALA provides tools in ODLOS to assist with that. Thank you, ODLOS
Amber Hayes
01:13:56
a reminder to click "ALL PANELISTS AND ATTENDEES" in the dropdown box if you'd like to share your ideas with the group
Edward Sanchez
01:13:57
I think perhaps an ombudsperson to turn to would be helpful.
jennifer boettcher
01:14:18
Should we slow our resolutions to discuss them at Meetings and vote while not in the Council room?
Megan Hodge
01:14:50
Taking what Selina wrote earlier one step further: I wonder if we might have formal representatives from our affiliate groups on Council, the same way that state chapters and ALA divisions/round tables have councilors to ensure these voices are represented on Council.
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:14:56
be more mindful of impact vs intention
Amber Creger
01:15:08
Bystander training would be helpful.
Edward Sanchez
01:15:28
I would change myself to be more proactive. A more active bystander
Jessica Jupitus
01:15:35
Recognize defensive feelings as a warning sign that something may be uncomfortably true and leaning into learning more instead of lashing out.
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:16:13
something jody said earlier--be mindful of how much room you take
Lori Fisher
01:16:29
One thing that struck me at Midwinter (my first Council experience) is the penchant for people to label other people without consciously realizing it. There was a moment at council III where someone at the mic said "if you don't vote for small group discussions, you are supporting racism and white supremacy." That's the kind of labeling that we do NOT need.
Johana Orellana
01:16:32
Consider our own each individual privilege and how that creates biases/opinions/reactions
Lori Fisher
01:16:48
Jessica that is a great idea - recognize when we are getting defensive and pause to really explore that before speaking
Sara Kelly Johns
01:17:20
We are not seeing MIke’s comments. Are you responding only to panelists Mike?
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:17:34
we sometimes forget that while we could assert certain identities, others impose them on us too
Mike Marlin
01:17:49
Sorry about that, go it
Jody Gray
01:17:55
Mike said: Train President and other officers on stage to be good mediators when uncomfortable moments occur. And this is no disrespect to Loida or Maureen or anyone, just have witnessed many of these instances.
Julie Dietzel-Glair
01:18:02
We need to not be afraid to ask questions. And we need to make sure we don't judge people for asking questions. We might not understand something related to a specific identity and one way to learn is through questions.
Pamela Martin
01:18:39
I agree with the need for bystander training, and I also agree with Johanna on owning our privilege. I think that is SO IMPORTANT
Jennifer Ferriss
01:19:00
I personally need to spend more time researching a resolution that is going to come to the council floor in order to have a 360 view on a topic. I trust my fellow councilors to have conducted thorough research and really I should be more proactive and seek out those with different points of view. Impact is important.
Mike Marlin
01:19:28
Maybe allow for process/ emotional intellligence questions after a chunck of reports or after each report/agenda item?
Kyla Johnson
01:20:01
Sometimes I think speaking up for someone is confused with assuming to speak for someone and that probably comes from a life of privilege that I didn’t even realize I was living.
Amber Creger
01:20:27
I agree with asking questions for better understanding.
Kyla Johnson
01:21:50
Yes, I definitely would like/need more processing time and I do read the resolutions and papers sent ahead of time but the discussions add so many new layers that I have to regroup in my head.
Pamela Martin
01:22:09
I kinda think all us white people (or at least most of us white people) need to recognize we are usually pretty bad at recognizing systemic racism.
Sara Kelly Johns
01:22:50
tAs I reflect on the number of times I have changed my position on resolutions after hearing others’ perspective, I feel that respect, courtesy, honest and encouragement to address Council are even more important than ever.
Martin Garnar
01:22:58
^^^What Pamela said.
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:23:08
ditto Martin
Kyla Johnson
01:23:12
Ditto
Mike Marlin
01:23:34
igualmente
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:24:53
ethics of care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_of_care
jennifer boettcher
01:25:31
I don't want to "speak for others," how do we let everyone have a voise if they are from sysamtic oppression or just introversion?
Julie Dietzel-Glair
01:26:45
I don't know enough about Robert's Rules of Order...is there a possibility for anonymous comments during Council?
Jennifer Ferriss
01:26:51
@JenniferBoettcher. I was thinking the same thing. If we could slow down the process and have people participate electronically, anonymously, have a proxy talk for them. It would be great to get everyone's opinion.
Martin Garnar
01:26:57
create other opportunities for dialogue aside from microphones on the Council floor.
Pamela Martin
01:27:04
I think we have to purposefully seek out those voices somehow. And have ways that they can contribute comfortable and perhaps anonymously?
Pamela Martin
01:27:10
Agree with Martin
Selina GomezBeloz
01:27:28
Perhaps when needing to hear the perspectives of our councilors of color or particular group, we take a moment to actually ask them if they are willing or prepared to give their perspective or story in what may be an emotionally charged space. At Midwinter, in others advocating in group discussion, I said I wasn't ready to share my stories at that time to help move along the greater understanding of the group.
Pamela Martin
01:27:36
That Council floor microphone is super intimidating.
Mike Marlin
01:27:51
the EDI TF had a recommendation or maybe we discussed one about having an EDI pledge at the beginning of every meeting for framing how important the issue is. We didn't want to draw comparisons to opening prayers or anything of the sort, and I don't know how people would feel to be reminded . maybe at the beginnign of each Council just stating ground rules (ethics of care) from the stage even though we like to think we're all adults and know how to respect each other?
Jennifer Ferriss
01:27:59
I'm a slow thinker. I read the work before I get there, but then discussions start and I have to think faster than I am used to. I might not have questions that would be important to bring up until it is toolate.
Johana Orellana
01:28:46
@Jennifer Ferriss same
Holly Hibner
01:29:00
I'm with Jennifer. I am a listener, and by the time I've taken it all in and thought it through, we're on to the next thing.
Kyla Johnson
01:29:03
I’m like Jennifer Ferrisis and then I am asking my neighbor because I am behind on something.
Tamika Barnes
01:29:06
As others have said, we need to establish other ways of communicating if we continue to operate the same way to give those that need to process or are intimidated by the mics
jennifer boettcher
01:29:23
Do we have to change Council fourm too?
Sara Kelly Johns
01:30:11
To continue Jennifer’s statement, perhaps MORE encouragement at the end of discussion, asking if there are any further statements.
Martin Garnar
01:30:41
it might take a while to get there, but developing a culture in which we are comfortable identifying behavior or comments that marginalize others as well as receiving that feedback.
Martin Garnar
01:31:01
the challenge will be sustaining that culture with the turnover that we have on Council.
Julie Dietzel-Glair
01:31:10
In a book discussion group that I'm part of, we discuss Positives about a book and then Concerns. Sometimes reframing conversations to but about those two ideas rather than Positives and Negatives may help.
Sara Kelly Johns
01:31:12
Yes, Martin, and do that with civility
Pamela Martin
01:31:28
Can council be more outreach-y? It seems as librarians we are good at doing outreach, but council has been pretty bad at outreach, I think...
Micki Dietrich
01:32:39
I agree with Martin. There has to be a way for us to give each other feedback and be better allies for our colleagues. We cannot rely on their work/emotional labor alone to make change.
Sara Kelly Johns
01:32:47
Council Orientation seems to be an opportunity to discuss and practice EDI, civility and speaking at the mic
Lori Fisher
01:32:55
It might be helpful to have someone up on stage from EDI who is specifically tasked with observing Council and identifying ways in which we are not upholding EDI principles - and then having a discussion about that through a zoom meeting like this. I think specific examples will help us figure out how we, personally, are contributing to this systemic problem.
Johana Orellana
01:33:35
We are holding each other accountable for continuing that respect when there is disagreement.
Amber Creger
01:33:36
Actively listening to each other and participating constructively in the conversation.
Jennifer Ferriss
01:33:59
Active listening and when the come to the microphone they say things like, "I think I heard you say..." "This is how I feel..."
Martin Garnar
01:34:06
Challenging assumptions and welcoming the education that comes from discussion of those assumptions.
Amber Creger
01:34:20
Treating each other with kindness when mistakes in procedures are made.
Jessica Jupitus
01:34:21
Being mindful of tone and intention when questioning. When we want clarification, seeking to get it instead of creating an opportunity to advance our own impulse responses.
Samantha Thomason
01:34:22
Listening and being open-minded
Edward Sanchez
01:34:53
appreciating each other's comments and questions. there is to a certain extent some rephrasing or repeating other's comments for clarity.
jennifer boettcher
01:34:54
I like the Outreasch idea, Have the virtural BB with Council Actions and ideas for the that upcoming meeting at Conference and allow for discussion and debate with the pros and cons to inform our disussion at Forum and in Council.
Pamela Martin
01:35:19
Staying task-oriented
Jennifer Ferriss
01:35:53
No ulterior motive
jennifer boettcher
01:36:11
How do we Challenging assumptions without challenging identity?
Tamika Barnes
01:36:32
active listening, question for understanding, comfortable expressing a different opinion
Kyla Johnson
01:37:21
We have to recognize that an issue that isn’t a big deal to us maybe a very big deal to someone else depending on their experience and respect that not discount it.
Tamika Barnes
01:37:42
In the quest to be respectful of others I don't want people to feel uncomfortable having differing opinions
jennifer boettcher
01:37:43
Historic oppresion is abuot alterior motives
jennifer boettcher
01:39:37
I like when some points out my assumtions, and pushing back.
jennifer boettcher
01:39:50
when someone points out...
Jessica Jupitus
01:40:01
Building relationships will allow us to have constructive conversations - we can hold one another accountable by getting to know each other and creating trust that leads to honesty.
jennifer boettcher
01:40:33
Networking to build trust, YES
Lori Fisher
01:40:45
We each need to take time to reflect on our own feelings/reactions/impulses and step back to explore why we are in that place - everyone has unexplored ulterior motives, and the first step to contributing to an EDI environment is personal responsibility. Think and reflect before you speak.
Johana Orellana
01:40:50
Reminding each other of our purpose, that our tone matters, to not make assumptions and to ask questions instead, and we have to hold ourselves accountable first.
jennifer boettcher
01:41:22
Maybe build more subgroups to know more? Sometimes I miss committee work.
Kyla Johnson
01:41:51
We have to work at disagreeing with one another without disrespecting one another. You can disagree with one another and both be passionate about your opinions but still be respectful and value the other person. My husband and I do this all the time.
Pamela Martin
01:41:59
Ditto to what Johanna said.
Julie Dietzel-Glair
01:42:08
I LOVE the idea of networking -- it's why I enjoy attending conferences in person. Any ideas on how to fit more networking into an already tight conference schedule?
Mike Marlin
01:42:24
I'm often afraid of confronting as it could be perceived as or *is?* a form of my white privilege?
Sara Kelly Johns
01:42:36
Mike Marlin has often respectfully and with his trademark sense of humor pointed out the problems he sees in a resolution or in a statement at the mic. You do that respecttully, Mike.
Amber Creger
01:42:37
Council can be intimidating, I know I hold a lot of self doubt about my opinions and if they are worth expressing. If we could reduce the barriers to particitpating and making the experience a more welcoming space to everyone that would be a good thing.
jennifer boettcher
01:43:03
I love Kyla's statement " You can disagree with one another and both be passionate about your opinions but still be respectful and value the other person."
Sara Kelly Johns
01:44:05
Respect and courteous disagreement happens and should be lauded when it does.
Kyla Johnson
01:44:41
Maybe we need a simple etiquette handout on how to speak in public on opinions or topics. ?
Sara Kelly Johns
01:44:48
Respectful—excuse me
Pamela Martin
01:44:48
I think having trained facilitators at Council Forms could help -- particularly trained in bystander and EDI issues
Kyla Johnson
01:45:20
Yes to what Pamela is saying.
maggie farrell
01:46:17
I wonder if we change the physical arrangement of the Council meeting in which we faced each other and spoke with each other rather than face the front/podium if that might convey that we are working together and listening to each other?
Jessica Jupitus
01:46:42
Oooh, Maggie. That could be huge.
jennifer boettcher
01:46:45
I would be afraid to pick a "side"
Tamika Barnes
01:46:54
Maggie that is an interesting thought
Johana Orellana
01:47:00
Maggie, I like your idea.
Lori Fisher
01:47:01
I do think that having someone observe council meetings or forums from an EDI perspective, and then offering those examples of what to do and what not to do would be super helpful (obviously with names expunged, etc). I need something more concrete to grasp in order to fully understand and change.
Pamela Martin
01:47:02
Need to be aware of white privilege, but not afraid of it. I don't want it to silence any of us.
Amber Creger
01:47:17
Changing the layout would be great!
Martin Garnar
01:47:21
no sides to a circle. I like Maggie's idea.
Pamela Martin
01:47:43
Lori -- would that be an EDI ombudsperson?
Sara Kelly Johns
01:47:44
I like that too, Maggie and Martin
jennifer boettcher
01:48:05
We would have to reduse the size of Council, SCOE?
Sara Kelly Johns
01:48:06
Nodding yes to Pamela
Kyla Johnson
01:48:08
I like that a lot.
Audrey Barbakoff
01:48:13
I've been in groups that use Ouch/Oops as a way to express when a norm has been violated. Saying "ouch" is a shorthand way of letting people know that something was hurtful to you, without placing blame or accusing them of any particular intention. "Oops" can become a normalized way of acknowledging that we screwed up (as we all do!) and then opening a space to explain or try again. Having a convention for expressing these things can make the acountability conversations easier.
Lori Fisher
01:48:29
Pamela - could be...my main point is the person is there to observe and not interact at that particular forum meeting, but take the examples away from there to share as concrete examples
Pamela Martin
01:48:47
I think that's great, Lori!
Martin Garnar
01:48:52
being able to let someone know in a respectful way that they've had enough time on the floor -- this also goes back to making room for all the voices.
Pamela Martin
01:48:59
Love Audrey's suggestion, too!
jennifer boettcher
01:49:20
I like Audrey's suggestion too
Lori Fisher
01:49:25
I like the ouch suggestion - that could be extremely useful and tension-breaking, yet respectful of not labeling or place blame
Pamela Martin
01:49:30
Good point, Martin!
Jennifer Ferriss
01:50:05
I wouldn't be opposed to someone letting me know if I messed up. I can't fix what I don't know. BUT, I don't want to be embarassed or shamed on the council floor.
Lori Fisher
01:50:50
Exactly Jennifer - which is why we need those concrete examples of good/poor EDI choices from someone who observes and then gets back to us as councilors for training/discussion after Annual
Edward Sanchez
01:50:57
i agree Lori and Pamela and as a person to who is there to listen if someone has experienced aggression.
Audrey Barbakoff
01:51:04
Overall, I would say that whatever solutions we put in place, we want to be sure they address more than just the Council floor during formal meetings. We want to consider how we're committing to EDI across listservs, Connect, forum, informal conversations, etc.
Kyla Johnson
01:51:05
Yes, I think that might be counterproductive if someone was really having a rough time and unintentionally did something. Much better to address it privately.
Mike Marlin
01:52:01
But what do we do when something egregious (multiply perceived as so ) happens in a public setting?
Pamela Martin
01:53:03
Can we ever address these issues privately, though, given social media?
Mike Marlin
01:53:09
p.s. I don't have the answer!
Samantha Thomason
01:53:49
Maureen, before we wrap up, can you repeat the 4 discussion questions for further thought?
Kyla Johnson
01:53:56
If it is truly egregious then I think our leadership has to step in immediately. Otherwise I think the EDI observer is a great idea.
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:54:01
just part of the accountability issue in the age of social media... let's think about the intention of privacy
Samantha Thomason
01:54:19
Yes, please!
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
01:54:19
it's to care, not to keep out of public's eye
Amber Hayes
01:54:41
Hi Samantha, if you're on a PC, the questions on on the powerpoint slide as well
Pamela Martin
01:54:51
(I do believe in privacy still, just putting that out there...)
jennifer boettcher
01:55:00
How does Roberts address egregiousness?
Martin Garnar
01:55:16
anyone should be able to hit the pause button when something happens so that we can create the space to address it in an appropriate manner.
Samantha Thomason
01:55:23
Thanks Maureen & Amber!
Martin Garnar
01:55:41
(and what's appropriate may be different depending on the situation)
Sara Kelly Johns
01:55:59
I want to review the Code of Conduct personally. Does it need to be reviewed and updated for EDI?
Pamela Martin
01:56:36
This has been thought-provoking and useful. Thank you, Jody & Maureen!!!
Martin Garnar
01:56:40
The EDI working group made some suggestions about the Code of Conduct.
Martin Garnar
01:57:02
(before Seattle)
Sara Kelly Johns
01:57:38
I would love those suggestions be made public!
Mike Marlin
02:03:38
Thanks to all! See you in D.C.
Loida Garcia-Febo
02:03:57
Thank you, all!
Jennifer Ferriss
02:03:59
Thank you
Kyla Johnson
02:04:01
Thank you!
Johana Orellana
02:04:14
Thanks, everyone! Have a beautilful day.
jennifer boettcher
02:04:17
Thank you, welcome all to Washington, DC
Megan Hodge
02:04:20
Thank you!
Raymond Pun
02:04:22
Thanks everyone~!
Melissa Cardenas-Dow
02:04:30
thanks!
Amber Creger
02:04:32
Thank you!
Martin Garnar
02:04:38
thanks!
maggie farrell
02:04:41
Thanks so much!