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Forward Together Resolutions Info Session - Gallery view
Christina Rodriques
03:49
Welcome Everyone, we will begin today at 4pm EST. Thank you.
Christina Rodriques
08:21
Full FTRWG resolutions overview document is here for councilors to comment: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ssV7gWwLjRsKAIy2J4xMNsKfAguRRdar/view?usp=sharing
Maggie Farrell
15:23
good afternoon from Las Vegas!
Jack Martin
16:03
Hello everyone!
Karen O'Brien
16:10
Hot and dry there, Maggie? Chicago's having some rain today.
Roberto Delgadillo
16:29
Hello all from Natomas in Northern CA
Diane Chen
16:31
Greetings from Nashville, TN and the American Association of School Librarians' (AASL) division councilor.
Sara Kelly Johns
17:14
Florida weather—hot and humid—in the Adirondacks in Northern NYS. Councilor-at-Large
Maggie Farrell (she/hers) UNLV
17:30
Today only 97, 13% humidity so very dry and fine in the shade in LV. :D
Kathy Lester
17:33
Hello from Plymouth, Michigan.
Sara Dallas
17:47
Sara Dallas - Councilor at Large Albany NY
Lorelei Sterling
18:14
Lorelei Sterling, Alaska Chapter Councilor
Jacquelyn Bryant
18:18
Greetings from Philadelphia. I am ACRL Division Councilor.
Amber Williams
18:19
Amber Williams, Councilor at Large
Maggie Farrell (she/hers) UNLV
18:33
thank you Working Group - this is a lot of work and appreciate your time on this!
Meg Delaney
18:38
Meg Delaney, Ohio Chapter Councilor
Karen Downing
18:40
Good afternoon! Karen Downing, Councilor-at-large from Ann Arbor, MI
Leslie L Morgan
18:48
Greetings from South Bend, IN 75 degrees since it rained briefly! Leslie L. Morgan, Councilor at Large
Erica Freudenberger
19:30
Erica Freudenberger -- Councilor-at-Large, NY
Gina Kromhout
19:31
Gina Kromhout, gamert councilor is here!
Joan Weeks
19:31
Joan Weeks, Councilor-al-large in hot, humid DC with lots of Cicadas.
Meredith Wickham
19:32
Meredith Wickham, Mississippi Chapter Councilor. Hi, everyone!
Emily Drew
20:00
Emily Drew, GNCRT Councilor
Sandra Hirsh
20:27
Sandy Hirsh, IRRT Councillor
Kim DeNero-Ackroyd
21:02
Kim DeNero-Ackroyd, Councilor-at-Large, Cleveland Heights, OH
Heather VanDyne
21:18
Heather VanDyne, Kansas Chapter Councilor
Anchalee Panigabutra-Roberts
21:25
Joy Panigabutra-Roberts, Councilor-at-Large. Knoxville, TN
Jim Neal
21:34
Jim Neal CaL from NYC
Deb Sica
21:55
Deb Sica, Rainbow RT Councilor. Happy Pride Month!!
Jennifer Dean
22:03
Hello from the Detroit Metro - Jennifer Dean, Michigan Chapter Councilor
Liana Juliano
22:15
Liana Juliano, Councilor at Large, Los Angeles CA
Daniella Smith
22:16
Greetings. Daniella Smith, Councilor At-Large, Texas
Christina Rodriques
22:38
To provide comments on council specific resolutions see Council Resolutions: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mPzZH_WblwdzY8e4SKTKr8xbE3LnVUIu/view?usp=sharing
Jim Neal
22:44
+1 Deb Sica
Jennifer Boettcher
23:04
Jennifer boettcher Councilor at Large maryland
Erica Freudenberger
23:12
Thanks so much Jack & Christina for putting this together!
Ed Garcia
23:52
Ed Garcia, Executive Board, Cranston RI
Alex Rivera (she/hers)
24:37
Hello! Alex Rivera, Executive Board - Ann Arbor, MI
Ana Elisa de Campos Salles (she/her)
24:52
Hi Everyone, Ana Elisa de Campos Salles, Councilor-at-large, belatedly introducing herself from sunny San Francisco!
Mike Marlin, Resolutions Committee Chair
25:31
Apologies to Christina and Jack as the Resolutions Committee is still discussing, but one potential point of confusion we wanted to clarify:
Mike Marlin, Resolutions Committee Chair
25:31
Policy domain conflict?Do Resolved clauses #2 and #6 (focus on ALA policy) directly conflict with Association Policy (BOD) Standing Committees Resolved clauses #1 and #3 ? Who is the policy making body now, Council or the Association Policy Standing Committee and therefore really the Board of Directors?
Mike Marlin, Resolutions Committee Chair
26:01
Sorry! please clarify: Policy domain conflict?Do Resolved clauses #2 and #6 (focus on ALA policy)a directly conflict with Association Policy (BOD) Standing Committees Resolved clauses #1 and #3 ? Who is the policy making body now, Council or the Association Policy Standing Committee and therefore really the Board of Directors?
Alfred Kagan
26:08
You should read it.
Diedre Conkling
26:26
Here is my spreadsheet showing ALA Council Members terms on ALA Council. There has always been significant turnover. Because of this I've never seen a need for term limits. It's a good number of new people. Currently, few serve ,more than 3 to 6 years. https://bit.ly/34VJJ75
Tara Brady
27:17
Thanks so much for compiling all that data on turnover, Diedre!
Eileen Palmer NJLA Chapter Councilor
27:56
Mike, yes I see some conflicts. It's why I think we need to determine the purpose and make up of Council first
Amber Williams
28:04
Question for the sub group suggestion- why 14 RT councilors and only 8 division councilors?
Deb Sica
28:20
Wow, Diedre - Thanks for sharing that! That changes my thinking on term limits.
Jayne Blodgett
28:28
Just as an fyi, there are 57 chapters (http://www.ala.org/aboutala/affiliates/chapters/state/stateregional)
Eileen Palmer NJLA Chapter Councilor
28:57
Amber that is based on the current # of Divisions and Roundtable elected Councilors
Toni Negro
29:02
Please show the resolution that Mike is referring to.
Tara Brady
29:11
Amber, they're currently allocated one each (with the same formula that we currently have for RTs having a rep on council.) We'd also discussed giving divisions multiple councilors, though.
Sara Dallas
29:47
There are 8 divisions, not sure how many roundtables
Aaron Dobbs
29:51
Jack/Christina Question: is there a link to the current drafts of these?
Stephanie Chase
29:52
I’ll add that divisions do have more authority and responsibility than RTs in the ALA structure, and that should be reflected
Jack Martin
30:14
Aaron Christina posted it earlier in the chat.
Tara Brady
30:24
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mPzZH_WblwdzY8e4SKTKr8xbE3LnVUIu/view The drafts again
Aaron Dobbs
30:33
thx!
Amber Williams
31:16
Thanks, Tara as we try to make a smaller council wouldn’t the better solution be to have less RT councilors?
Mike Marlin, Resolutions Committee Chair
32:12
I just think it needs to be crystal clear who is the policy making body of ALA.
Erica Freudenberger
32:27
+1 Amber
Jack Martin
32:50
In our last presentation, we heard multiple concerns about Assemblies being “siloed.” We were thinking that Council could be the mechanism to bring the Assemblies and the various other parts of the organization to discuss Policy..
Eileen Palmer NJLA Chapter Councilor
33:11
+Jack
Meg Delaney
33:20
I would like to speak
Heather VanDyne
33:30
How would chapter councilors be divided?
Jack Martin
33:54
@Heather we havne’t gotten to that level of detail yet…And that may be left to the Implementation team
Kim DeNero-Ackroyd
33:58
+1 Amber
Gina Kromhout
34:12
amber - we could, just that each rt does very different things and so might need separate councilors, but we can look at these things
Sara Kelly Johns
34:29
I am seeing very little representation of school librarians since MANY chapters do not represent the school librarians in their states. One AASL division in the second option, none guaranteed in the first? Or am I missing something?
Aaron Dobbs
34:41
I've been off and on building a comparative look at the "current" ALA governance table of organization as compared to the SCOE/FT/FTRWG proposals -- here's where I've gotten so far (I haven't gotten to the Assemblies)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_oamcjkszlo5NOTblBOtOgbyJq6KlLNph67k3nnT6iw/edit?usp=sharing
DianeChen AASL Div Clr
34:46
+ Sara Kelly JOhns
Gina Kromhout
35:16
good point sara. could we set aside seats for k-5, 6-8, 9-12?
Jack Martin
35:27
@Sara I think Tara had mentioned this earlier, but one of the options for the makeup of councilors could include more representation from Divisions. I remember seeing one iteration where each Division had 5 reps...
Christina Rodriques
35:36
o provide comments on council specific resolutions see Council Resolutions: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mPzZH_WblwdzY8e4SKTKr8xbE3LnVUIu/view?usp=sharing
Meg Delaney
35:40
Thanks Aaron!
Sara Kelly Johns
37:05
@Jack is that Council make-up for divisions what is in the second version?
DianeChen AASL Div Clr
37:27
I would like to speak.
Gina Kromhout
37:31
+5000 Tara
Jack Martin
37:53
@Sara No actually. It’s what Tara is describing—only one per division
Jack Martin
38:36
I agree @Diane
Eileen Palmer NJLA Chapter Councilor
38:45
I think the purpose is clear from my perspective - Council would remain the policy governance body. We need a place where all view points on policy can be debated and determined. A larger more representative body assures, in my mind, that we maintain democratic nature of ALA and would provide a balance to the increased role of an enlarged EB.
Joyce Valenza
39:40
Thank you, Diane! This is a time of great crisis and need for equity.
Gina Kromhout
39:47
yep Eileen,
Jennifer Boettcher
40:02
http://www.ala.org/aboutala/governance/policymanual
Christina Rodriques
40:03
At any time, please send us additional comments or suggestions via Email: forwardtogether@ala.org
Alex Rivera (she/hers)
40:03
+1 Sara and Diane. Thank you.
Gina Kromhout
40:05
ugh fat fingers. yep Eileen!
Alfred Kagan
40:11
I note in the resolution of establishing a Board of Directors, it states in no. 2, “create a new ALA Board of Directors with the SAME duties and responsibilities as the previous Executive Board.” Therefore it seems that at the Council would have the same duties as it does now.
Anchalee Panigabutra-Roberts
40:48
I drew a chart to include all these groups in the new org chart and thinking that the assemblies already have divisions, RTs, chapters and affiliates. Why not adding the BODs in the assemblies and then see how to work the Council in.
Tara Brady
40:50
The Forward Together plan recommended a 25% reduction which would be about 135 seats.
Eileen Palmer NJLA Chapter Councilor
41:00
I appreciate Diane's comments. I would love to see a broader discussion of council and how to make it representative.
Sara Kelly Johns
41:00
+Diane Thank you. School librarians have had a hard time getting to conferences. Eliminating the need to be at in-person conferences would help but then there have to be seats.
Jennifer Boettcher
41:32
Would Board be do duties mentioned in Manual A and Council controls Manual B, both manuals do "Policies"?
Jennifer Boettcher
41:43
http://www.ala.org/aboutala/governance/policymanual
Erica Freudenberger
41:53
+1 Stephanie
Aaron Dobbs
42:08
Council (per Constitutino VI.1 "The Council of the American Library Association shall be the governing body of the Association"
Karen Downing
42:19
We will need to revisit the roles of the BOD if we reconstitute some form of Council. And we need to see what the cost of a large BOD will be. Also, are we making our governance more transparent for members, or are we just shifting around responsibilities?
Aaron Dobbs
42:23
That;s what Coiuncil does :)
Jack Martin
42:43
Thank you Stephanie! I keep asking myself if I want to see a potential vote to eliminate Council altogether. I think it would be a healthy discussion for us to have whether or not a person is for or against
Meg Delaney
42:49
+1 Karen
Tara Brady
43:10
Off the cuff elevator pitch: Council brings together different types, settings and specialties of library work to discuss organizational policy, to help ensure that ALA remains relevant to as many type of library work as possible.
Stephanie Chase
43:19
Agreed, Jack!!!
Aaron Dobbs
43:56
“Create a new ALA Board of Directors with the same duties and responsibilities as the previous Executive Board”
Stephanie Chase
44:01
Tara, then I would ask ourselves if what is proposed does that. Policy and relevance, to me, are two very different and important needs
Aaron Dobbs
44:03
“The Executive Board shall act for the Council in the administration of established policies and programs.” Const VII.3
Aaron Dobbs
44:06
“The Executive Board shall make recommendations to Council with respect to matters of policy.”
Aaron Dobbs
44:07
4 officers (P, VP, PP, T)8 members “elected by ALA membership”6 members from the Assemblies (1 RT, 1 Affiliate, 2 Chapter, 2 Division)3 appointed (by the Board of Directors)1 non-voting staff member
Ann Ewbank
44:27
I like this resolution a lot. A reduced footprint will save $ and is more sustainable. I remember Eli Mina saying that Councilors should think about ALA in the aggregate as opposed to just the unit they represent. On Council I represent 57,000 members in all types of libraries and professions. It’s an ecosystem.
Ed Garcia
44:59
If council remains is there a need for an enlarged Board?
Meg Delaney
45:42
Agree Ann!
Aaron Dobbs
45:48
compared to current table of organization:4 officers (P,VP,PP,T)8 members elected from Council1 non-voting staff member
Gina Kromhout
45:48
my off the cuff thing about councils purpose: Resolved, that the responsibilities of Council are: To set Policy and procedural guidelines within the American Library Association To set standards for proper library administration To guide libraries on wider social issues affecting the library profession
Jack Martin
46:27
@Ed Council as it exists in this slide deck is a subset of Assemblies, Committee Members, Board and At large members. It’s the flip side of what it currently is (where everything emerges from)
Mike Marlin, Resolutions Committee Chair
46:49
taking off my RC chair hat...what about adding: 5. that the BOD meet at least 4 times a year and that all BOD meetings contain provisions made for in person meetings to have a virtual component.6. that the requirement to attend in-person meetings of the BOD be eliminated.
Eileen Palmer NJLA Chapter Councilor
47:18
I would like to speak please
Jack Martin
47:38
@Mike we had that in but it was recommended from leadership that we leave details like that to the next implementation group. It’s definitely an important point
Aaron Dobbs
49:03
remember that the current Executive Board is a technically Committee of Council (for all that it is not listed there)
Aaron Dobbs
49:37
would the new Board of Directors also be a Committee of Council? or a Committee of the Association? Or something else/
Jack Martin
50:47
@Aaron no…Council in these slides is a subsidiary of the board, assemblies, committee members and at large that discusses policies that then moves up to board action. Also assemblies and the committees can discuss policy separately from COuncil
Jennifer Boettcher
50:51
Aeeon that is up to current Council members
Aaron Dobbs
51:16
I have a comment :)
Ed Garcia
51:33
fiduciary responsibility currently sits with the Executive Board and we should have a legal opinion before that changes
Sandra Hirsh
51:50
If we add Council back into the governance structure, then it seems like we have added more bureaucracy rather than less as now we would have an expanded Board of Directors, Council, and all of the Assemblies, etc.
DianeChen AASL Div Clr
52:17
I love the children's literature reference, Aaron.
Gina Kromhout
52:19
don’t let the pigeon drive the bus! lol
Aaron Dobbs
54:51
I forgot a comment :/
Aaron Dobbs
54:57
may I?
Eileen Palmer NJLA Chapter Councilor
55:43
I think the appointed Board members was the most contentious issue and that is now removed.
Leroy Lafleur
55:52
Lee LaFleur, Councilor at large-I am comfortable voting for a proposal with ‘less’ details, as long as there as we have information about who will provide the details post-vote
Jack Martin
55:58
Aaron I think that is most likely incorrect and that we should take a mother look at it
Jack Martin
56:07
Thank you Leroy
John DeSantis
56:11
If Board of Directors will serve on Council, how does that work if the proposal is to eliminate Council?
Anchalee Panigabutra-Roberts
56:49
The assemblies as they stand won’t have the direct access to the ALA leadership that we have now via the Council. I wonder if we can bring in the BODs into the Assemblies so the groups in the Assemblies can have better access to the BODs. Just my 2 cents.
Gina Kromhout
57:18
it was our general consensus in the council subcommittee that council should be in the driver seat
Aaron Dobbs
57:30
To quote JAnet Swan Hill - we pass what is written, not what is meant :)
Jack Martin
57:37
@John it’s a new council
Alesia McManus
57:53
I think this is a good resource for learning more about association governance https://www.asaecenter.org/resources/topics/governance .
Ed Garcia
58:14
I think a revised version of Council needs to be the policy making body as a more representative body then an expanded BOD
Gina Kromhout
58:28
we are not, repeat, NOT going to introduce a resolution to eliminate council entirely at this time
Stephanie Chase
58:59
I think that is a mistake. I agree with a comment Jack made earlier that to have a meaningful conversation about it is important
Gina Kromhout
01:00:20
it is, just clarifying that there won’t be a resolution on the floor explicitly stating that
Jack Martin
01:00:27
Don’t forget to read the Whereas clauses in the full document to get more context
Sandra Hirsh
01:00:35
If Council is not going to be eliminated, I think that the resolution working groups need to re-group to explain how all of the different governance groups work together, what their roles, and how people get selected for each.
Ed Garcia
01:00:36
How does the EDI Assembly that was created and other groups within ALA called Assemblies fit into this structure?
Gina Kromhout
01:00:37
but yeah, let’s travel that conversation
Aaron Dobbs
01:00:48
++Sandra
Jim Neal
01:01:02
I think COO and CBL can work on the details and bring back to Council implementation strategy with appropriate recommendations
Ed Garcia
01:01:14
+Jim
Sara Kelly Johns
01:01:29
+++Sandy Hirsh
Ed Garcia
01:01:41
++++Sandy
Alesia McManus
01:02:05
I have question.
John DeSantis
01:02:09
++ Sandy
Ann Ewbank
01:02:22
@Jim Neal- C & B stands at the ready!
Eileen Palmer NJLA Chapter Councilor
01:02:26
@Sandra I am not sure that is possible before Annual -- although I agree with you it would be ideal
Amber Williams
01:03:03
I would like to see a vote on wether or not Council exists go to members, if membership sees value in having Council then they will vote to keep it. It would be nice to have something so definitive to work from.
Jack Martin
01:03:18
@Amber that’s a really good idea actually
Deb Sica
01:03:27
+1 Amber!!
Aaron Dobbs
01:03:34
after anyone else goes, I have one
Stephanie Chase
01:03:34
+1 Amber
Jayne Blodgett
01:03:38
+1 Amber
Leslie Campbell Hime
01:03:41
+Amber
Erica Freudenberger
01:03:45
+1 Amber
Kara Reiman
01:03:47
+1 Amber
Tara Brady
01:03:52
Isn't that what's going to happen, though? We put together a plan and send it to the members for approval?
Sandra Hirsh
01:04:13
@Eileen - I guess I feel we have spent so long discussing the elimination of Council and building a structure that would function without it, that it feels very rushed to add Council back in at this point without understanding how the governance units will all work together.
Joyce Valenza
01:04:33
Would the Assembly and the leadership team have staggered three-year terms to ensure continuation of institutional knowledge?
Ann Ewbank
01:05:10
@Amber, this is what will happen. We are changing the bylaws. Council needs to pass and then the bylaws changes will be approved/rejected by the entire membership.
Alesia McManus
01:05:29
A subset of the division councilors are meeting Friday (not every councilor was available) to talk about this resolution. We'll send additional feedback after we meet.
Stephanie Chase
01:05:32
Only if the changes pass Council will it go to membership, is what I understand
John DeSantis
01:05:36
Or alternatively Council could choose not to pass
Meredith Wickham
01:05:37
That's what I thought we are doing, yes, @Tara.
Amber Williams
01:05:40
That isn’t what happens. They vote on what we give them to vote on and it seems Council is unwilling to put the elimination fo Council on a ballot.
Joan Weeks
01:05:46
I would like to speak
Christina Rodriques
01:05:53
To comment on assemblies resolutions: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JkrJILuvHxy2jAff2Dm-aq3Kldcaww3c/view?usp=sharing
Joyce Valenza
01:05:59
Thanks, Jack
Meg Delaney
01:06:30
I would like to speak
Aaron Dobbs
01:06:33
The Nominating Committee charge is an interesting in, I commend it to you for close review :)
Aaron Dobbs
01:06:39
*one
Ann Ewbank
01:06:54
@ Amber, sorry, I misunderstood. I see what you are saying. I wonder if the bylaws allow such a vote. Will put that on my to-do list. (I’m C & B chair)
Stephanie Chase
01:07:11
+1 Meg
Gina Kromhout
01:07:34
good idea meg
Tara Brady
01:07:46
We really need the input from the resolution committee on how to go about proposing it I think.
Jennifer Boettcher
01:07:59
I like that idea.
Stephanie Chase
01:07:59
I would like to speak
Aaron Dobbs
01:09:19
A full flowchart of options and decision points in the path to moving forward is really important.
Alesia McManus
01:09:34
The whereas clauses were helpful to read through
Jack Martin
01:09:42
Agreed @Aaron there’s just not a lot of time
Aaron Dobbs
01:09:49
:)
Jack Martin
01:09:51
But we’ll pull together what we can!
Joan Weeks
01:09:53
I would like to speak
Jennifer Boettcher
01:09:59
We can't make a decision based on sunk cost bias
Jennifer Boettcher
01:10:01
https://www.behavioraleconomics.com/resources/mini-encyclopedia-of-be/sunk-cost-fallacy/
Stephanie Chase
01:10:10
Great example, thanks Victor!
Meg Delaney
01:10:14
Aaron, our group put together a table - sorry, not a flowchart. We'll find a way to share it.
Aaron Dobbs
01:10:34
Table layout is great! looking forward to it
Karen Downing
01:10:35
Yesssss, Meg! I need to see where the functions of our current council are going so we can be very clear to members (and ourselves) how their/our association is going to be governed.
Mike Marlin, Resolutions Committee Chair
01:11:02
What about Ed's question about other assemblies? Are they being disbanded or remain separate from this proposed structure?
Jack Martin
01:11:59
@Mike Ed correct me if I’m wrong, but, is the DEI Assembly a separate entity from what we’re describing here with the same name?
Mike Marlin, Resolutions Committee Chair
01:13:56
EDI assembly which is managed by ODLOS but is an official body.
Jack Martin
01:14:52
@Mike Since it was in FTWG Report it didn’t make the cut. But if it’s a real entity mean to map to what we’ve outlined here then we need to make a consideration to include it.
Stephanie Chase
01:15:00
I’m looking forward to voting and being able to move ahead.
Alesia McManus
01:15:01
I really appreciate you work on the revised resolutions.
Jack Martin
01:15:10
@Miike, sorry since it was NOT in the FTWG report….
Stephanie Chase
01:15:10
Yes! SO APPRECIATIVE!
Ed Garcia
01:15:38
yes thank you all for the hard work on a difficult topic
Sara Kelly Johns
01:16:03
Thank you to all who have done so much work!
Stephanie Chase
01:16:06
What is the deadline for comment?
Victor Baeza
01:16:50
But discussion can continue in the forum before council meets.
Leroy Lafleur
01:17:03
Thanks for all of the work you’ve put in!
Jack Martin
01:17:08
Thanks all!
Anchalee Panigabutra-Roberts
01:17:14
Thank you All.
Raymond Garcia, ALA Staff
01:17:23
you may also send your comments to forwardtogether@ala.org
Mike Marlin, Resolutions Committee Chair
01:17:26
Thanks all.
Monica Harris
01:17:27
Thank you for the work that led to this.
Meredith Wickham
01:17:32
Thank you!
Ana Elisa de Campos Salles (she/her)
01:17:37
Thank you all so much!
Jonathan Newton (he/him, SC Chapter Councilor)
01:17:41
thank you so much!
Catherine Damiani
01:17:42
Thank you everyone!
Aaron Dobbs
01:17:47
I was looking for the 1990s reorganization effort (that was voted down in the late 1990s) -- does this ring a bell for anyne?It does come to mind that ALA had some extensive conversations back in the 1990s about making significant alterations to the structure of ALA. This is commonly kno